WEBVTT 00:00:01.000 --> 00:00:04.000 Alright. 00:00:04.000 --> 00:00:17.000 Speaker 1 So hello and welcome to community and university, the MSU Center for Community and Economic Development Podcasts aimed at providing outreach to both community members and students throughout the state of Michigan. 00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:31.000 Speaker 1 The Michigan State University U.S. economic Development Administration, University Center for Regional Economic Innovations Mission is to stimulate innovative economic development in the most distressed communities within Michigan. 00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:51.000 Speaker 1 The REI University Center embraces a culture of regional collaboration and knowledge sharing between economic development professionals and committed scholars. The centers model provides responsive community engagement, strategic partnerships, and collaborative learning to support the creation and identification of innovative tools models. 00:00:51.000 --> 00:01:09.000 Speaker 1 And practices to increase the number of small businesses, create access to job skill development, improve public infrastructure, advanced high growth entrepreneurship, and encourage global competitiveness to strengthen underserved communities and historically excluded citizens. 00:01:09.000 --> 00:01:22.000 Speaker 1 The REI University centers most recent award focuses on four key pillars of community and economic development that together will build up the resilience, sustainability and equity within the communities in which it partners. 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:30.000 Speaker 1 The four pillars include resiliency planning, financial resilience, circular economies and 21st century communication. 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:49.000 Speaker 1 The University Center will work with community partners to address these themes in Michigan, Economic Development Corporation identified redevelopment ready communities containing opportunity zones, census tracts and or with large concentrations of Alice populations or those who are asset limited income constrained. 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:51.000 Speaker 1 Employed. 00:01:51.000 --> 00:02:11.000 Speaker 1 I am on the Gilbert and I am one of the hosts for community and university. Today we will be spotlighting one of REI Centers Innovation Fellows, David Palmer, who is working on a project entitled Growing A well functioning home buyer ecosystem for low, medium income Detroiters aimed at building financial resilience in the Detroit community. 00:02:11.000 --> 00:02:24.000 Speaker 1 Innovation Fellows provide on the ground support and coordination to move concepts into actions implementing new economic development tools, models and policies. Welcome to the CD podcast, David. 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:28.000 Speaker 2 Thank you for the invitation. It's an honor to be an MSU REI fellow this year. 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:38.000 Speaker 1 Now before we get started, do you mind introducing yourself, including a little bit about your educational and professional background for our listeners? 00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:47.000 Speaker 2 Certainly again, my name is David Palmer. I live in Rosedale Park, in the city of Detroit, and I have a bachelor's degree in political science. 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:55.000 Speaker 2 From Eastern Michigan University, as well as a graduate certificate in nonprofit management and a Masters in public administration, all from. 00:02:55.000 --> 00:03:15.000 Speaker 2 You my professional background, I I started actually working when I was 13 in the kitchen and was managing that kitchen. By the time I was 14 and became essentially a a self-taught sous chef and spent ten years in restaurants. So in my early 20s I switched over to office life, if you will. 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:17.000 Speaker 2 And. 00:03:17.000 --> 00:03:37.000 Speaker 2 While spending thirteen years on that undergraduate degree, so it was a non traditional student focused on making ends meet as a a self sustained renter who had to have health insurance because I have multiple sclerosis, the the medication that I've been on since. 00:03:37.000 --> 00:03:41.000 Speaker 2 1999 is incredibly expensive. 00:03:41.000 --> 00:04:02.000 Speaker 2 So. So maintaining health insurance was more important than the quick degree, so took thirteen years in the undergrad and then quickly banged out the graduate certificate and the Masters degree within a couple of years. Once I was my income sort of caught up with my desire to earn post secondary credentials. So in my work background after restaurants. 00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:13.000 Speaker 2 They managed A environmental services company in Ann Arbor, which introduced me to real estate work. The environmental work that we were doing. 00:04:13.000 --> 00:04:33.000 Speaker 2 Typically interacted with Realtors during the contingency periods of single family home sales, so we would be installing radon mitigation systems, testing for mold, asbestos, lead, and and other topics like that. After leaving that company, I I spent a number of years in Maine. 00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:42.000 Speaker 2 Where I was doing political consulting for independent third party candidates as well as working in that, that restaurant and service. 00:04:42.000 --> 00:05:03.000 Speaker 2 Build coming back to Michigan, where I grew up just north of Ann Arbor, lived in East Lansing for a number of years while I attended Lance of Community College and spent a total of 13 years living in Ipsilanti. When I was running a a small business German owned software development company. 00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:08.000 Speaker 2 And I managed uh, Western Hemisphere logistics, marketing, advertising and the. 00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:28.000 Speaker 2 Zoning for those folks where we sold really expensive toys to toys is a little bit silly, but fluid measurement devices to places like the MSU Aerospace Lab, where they looked at flow calculations. So. 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:36.000 Speaker 2 After that period, I moved into the nonprofit sector of My Masters degree and was a senior director at the Workforce Intelligence Network. 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:57.000 Speaker 2 When, as it goes by, is the sort of the friendly regional labor market data geeks for the Greater Detroit region. So the 16 counties around the city of Detroit make up the labor shed for where humans live and work in what we collectively call the Detroit region. And we studied. 00:05:57.000 --> 00:05:59.000 Speaker 2 Job postings from. 00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:17.000 Speaker 2 Others, such that we would be able to determine what employers said they wanted for talent, and then my job was to go figure out what employers actually needed. And then we wrote 10s of millions of dollars of grants getting awarded to train people to do the things that employers claim they. 00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:19.000 Speaker 2 Wanted to do. 00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:29.000 Speaker 2 During that process, I obtained the real estate license and now a brokers license. So I also support folks in my sort of personal networks. 00:06:29.000 --> 00:06:47.000 Speaker 2 If single family and commercial real estate interests that they have, so I'm a bit of a Swiss army knife as far as multidisciplinary person who does a lot of different things and and really enjoys, you know. 00:06:47.000 --> 00:06:57.000 Speaker 2 The quest of learning more than anything else and supporting decent humans in their desire to be sustaining and and live quality lives. 00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:00.000 Speaker 1 That's awesome. Thank you for that wonderful overview of your professional life and your educational life. 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:03.000 Sure. 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:24.000 Speaker 1 Now, you haven't really spoken about this yet, but you do currently own your own consulting agency. Do you want to speak to what DC Palmers activities typically look like and how you got inspired to get involved in community and economic development work in the first place? 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:36.000 Speaker 2 Sure. So a lot of the work that I've done over the years is is truly driven by a passion for understanding how to reach that shining city on the hill. 00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:56.000 Speaker 2 Type idea that the nations invest a lot of platitudes in, so to operationalize that, I've always focused on the equal protection clause of the US Constitution. And if that were truly enforce the way I think it should be. 00:07:56.000 --> 00:08:13.000 Speaker 2 Then a lot of the inequities that we find in our education, economic housing and and other arenas could be reconciled. If we treated everyone with respect and equal access. 00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:16.000 Speaker 2 So thinking about how to. 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:33.000 Speaker 2 Make a living while caring about these things. I've been blessed with the ability to write a lot of grants and have a lot of grants awarded. I've been blessed with the ability to convene and facilitate conversations between. 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:43.000 Speaker 2 Individuals and organizations that, if they choose to focus on solving for a challenge, then they can move the needle if facilitated. 00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:44.000 Speaker 2 Appropriately. 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:53.000 Speaker 2 So DC Palmer LLC is is simply a legal entity that allows me to be able to operate as a business. 00:08:53.000 --> 00:09:13.000 Speaker 2 In this last year, I've hired my first project manager, so I actually have a staff and we'll be looking to hire one or two more people this year to support a number of different projects and also have a large network of sole proprietors and independent consultants where we weave together the. 00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:25.000 Speaker 2 The right number of smart people that can support bringing a project from idea to implementation and ultimately and outcome. 00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:39.000 Speaker 1 Wonderful. So you're really spending that whole process from creating the idea itself, finding a way to fund that project and seeing it through to that implementation phase in order to understand whether or not the intention behind the project truly. 00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:40.000 Speaker 1 Was the outcome. 00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:45.000 Speaker 2 Yeah, that's the beauty of of being a little bit of a data geek cause. 00:09:45.000 --> 00:10:05.000 Speaker 2 When you are digging around in the numbers and you ask the numbers to provide you with answers based on the best available information, then the answers might not always align with the convenient narrative that we've all been led to believe. So if you want to move that narrative. 00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:19.000 Speaker 2 Towards a place of of equity rather than exclusion. Then there's lots of different ways to to move that needle, and that's really, I think, where this this fellowship comes in focused on. 00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:39.000 Speaker 2 Solutions after a year of research with a bunch of really smart folks and a lot of interviews and and these sorts of inputs, it's great to write a report, but if there's not a solution matrix on the other side, then we're just filling the library. 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:40.000 No. 00:10:40.000 --> 00:11:01.000 Speaker 1 Now you mentioned earlier that you live in Rosedale Park currently, but that you've also moved around to different cities in Michigan and even outside of Michigan. Now since you returned back to Michigan and began living in within the city of Detroit or right outside of it, what key changes have you observed? 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:07.000 Speaker 1 In the Detroit community since you first started living and working in the area simultaneously. 00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:30.000 Speaker 2 Sure. So let's see. I lived in Maine from 99 to 02 and then again in 06. So around that time on the East Coast, I I lived in Michigan for most of my life. So when I think about the changes that have occurred in Detroit, specifically over the last, we'll say 30 or 40 years. 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:51.000 Speaker 2 The there's been a dramatic decrease in home ownership, especially among in the African American community. Detroit is the largest African American Majority City in the United States, and the 2008 recession in particular was incredibly hard. 00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:57.000 Speaker 2 On home ownership for a host of different reasons. 00:11:57.000 --> 00:12:17.000 Speaker 2 Historically, African Americans have struggled to obtain homeownership because of policies from the federal government, lenders and Realtors. During the the period, especially after World War 2, when incentives were created that were only available to white folks. 00:12:17.000 --> 00:12:25.000 Speaker 2 Moving into new subdivisions, typically in rural areas which have now become suburbs. 00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:45.000 Speaker 2 So thinking about the chance that you, it's really hard to reconcile past wrongs, but there is an opportunity to create new policies to make the incentives available to drive home ownership within communities that were historically wronged. 00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:53.000 Speaker 2 So when I think about the changes that have happened in Detroit over the last 30 to 40 years, I see a dramatic decrease in in single family homes. 00:12:53.000 --> 00:13:13.000 Speaker 2 Worship. I see an investor class that has purchased up a lot of properties for nickels on the dollar, especially after the housing market crash and as a real estate broker, I I observe things in the ecosystem that where large tranches of these properties are moved around. 00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:17.000 Speaker 2 Between investors and. 00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:37.000 Speaker 2 I see plenty of opportunities for the public sector and the private sector to engage in in home ownership stabilization opportunities, whereby if we braided funding from public resources, private resources and indeed this once and three generation opportunity under the. 00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:49.000 Speaker 2 American Recovery Plan Act that we could look at the demand for single family home ownership among low and median income. 00:13:49.000 --> 00:14:08.000 Speaker 2 Interested persons in the city of Detroit and figure out ways to make homeownership available to them by braiding these resources and and providing a a move in ready home for someone who likely doesn't believe that they can attain homeownership in their current status. 00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:22.000 Speaker 1 No, I think you just provided a great preface to the next part of our conversation about your project itself, but let's dedicate some time to truly understanding what you're working on with your innovation fellowship. 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:31.000 Speaker 1 So can you provide our audience with an overview of your project itself, the research that you're conducting in order to move that project forward and also how you hope it? 00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:35.000 Speaker 1 Is implemented within Detroit. 00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:37.000 Speaker 2 The genesis of this fellowship. 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:41.000 Speaker 2 Program that I'm working on now. 00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:49.000 Speaker 2 20 when as a consultant and a real estate broker, I was. 00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:54.000 Speaker 2 Told by the state of Michigan that I couldn't do work anymore. 00:14:54.000 --> 00:15:14.000 Speaker 2 So real estate sales were suspended during the pandemic under emergency order and we weren't supposed to be out actively seeking listings or selling properties to buyers. Whatever was in the system was supposed to be sort of wound down. 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:20.000 Speaker 2 So that you know the the the challenges around adjusting to COVID would be? 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:23.000 Speaker 2 Better understood by. 00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:43.000 Speaker 2 Health policymakers and the governor and those folks. So as I'm sitting in my Home Office, basically with nothing to do because my primary modes of work were were stripped away from me, I I sat there for a couple of days and thought about the things that I wanted to quantify for. 00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:52.000 Speaker 2 The mental whiteboard of of things that would just be interesting to learn about. So I had been a realtor. 00:15:52.000 --> 00:16:12.000 Speaker 2 Volunteer instructor for homebuyer education courses through the MSU extension since 2013 and thinking about all of these challenges in Detroit's real estate market. In particular, I started to ask questions like how many home buyer education agencies are there in Detroit? 00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:15.000 Speaker 2 What are their outcomes? 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:16.000 Speaker 2 Who do I go to to figure? 00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:16.000 Speaker 2 That. 00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:36.000 Speaker 2 Out so I started, went to the Internet and started trying to answer those questions. So I've discovered that at in September of 2020, there were 16 different home buyer education agencies headquartered in the city of Detroit. And I asked the HUD office in Detroit if they could provide me with the. 00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:43.000 Speaker 2 9902 form, which each of those agencies reports quarterly to HUD. What the outcomes of their education program. 00:16:43.000 --> 00:17:03.000 Speaker 2 Sorry, the Detroit office said. Thank you for asking, but we're not going to give you that information. I said, well, this is aggregate data that should be publicly available. Why won't you give it to me? They said thank you for asking, but we're not going to give you that information. I said, well, can we move it up the food chain? 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:15.000 Speaker 2 And talk to folks in HUD in DC. So for a number of weeks and polite e-mail exchange was going back and forth and the folks at HUD and DC said thank you for asking. But we're not going to give you that info. 00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:35.000 Speaker 2 I said OK, this is awkward. So now I have to send you a FOIA request. FOIA is Freedom of Information Act. There are federal FOIA rules, and there are state FOIA rules. So depending on what information you're seeking depends. So under federal foyer rules, I submitted the request for information for all these agencies and HUD. 00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:46.000 Speaker 2 Did not respond in the statutory time frame that they're required to do so, which made me agitated. 00:17:46.000 --> 00:18:06.000 Speaker 2 So I thought about, OK, do you just call an attorney or? No, no. It makes way more sense. Let's call US Representative Rashida to leave. I've known representative to lead for a number of years, and she has a particular passion for transparency and federal data. And I said, Representatively, would you be willing to help me obtain this information? 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:12.000 Speaker 2 And she graciously assigned a staff person to support. 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:32.000 Speaker 2 Trying to get this information out of Hut in the meantime, as a grant writer, I said, OK, are there any organizations in the region that would be interested in funding this kind of research to determine home buyer outcomes from education? And after speaking with a number of funders, I settled on University of Michigan. 00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:33.000 Speaker 2 Property solutions. 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:53.000 Speaker 2 And convened University of Michigan School of Social Work Center for Equitable, Family and community well-being. So Doctor Trina Shanks and her team, including Patrick Meehan as well as Hector Hernandez, the executive director at Southwest Economic Solutions, Swes. 00:18:53.000 --> 00:19:08.000 Speaker 2 As would refer to them as is one of those homebuyer education agencies. So while we are waiting for the HUD data show up, we analyzed all of the single family property transfer data from the assessor. 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:28.000 Speaker 2 Office and started layering in other data from the Michigan State Housing Development Authority and a wide range of other resources to start developing a more sophisticated understanding of what the actual situation is in the city of Detroit for the number of mortgages. 00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:44.000 Speaker 2 In neighborhoods within the city, so the outcome looked like 2/3, approximately 2/3 of the city of Detroit, as less than 20% of its annual property transfers for single family homes utilizing a mortgage. 00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:55.000 Speaker 2 Which is almost the exact opposite of what you see in all of the adjacent communities. So property transfers in non Detroit areas are almost always through a mortgage for. 00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:57.000 Speaker 2 Single family properties. 00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:04.000 Speaker 2 So seeing the numbers which others have have, you know, written about extensively in the past. 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:08.000 Speaker 2 But contextualizing to the neighborhood level was really. 00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:28.000 Speaker 2 When we finally got the hub data, we discovered that the HUD 9902 form can be used as a proxy for demand for single family home buyers that are interested in purchasing a home, likely for the first time, and especially in the city of Detroit, it was important. 00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:44.000 Speaker 2 For us to know that the participants in these programs reflect the demographic and income levels of the city, so 78% of the participants were less than 80% of the area median income. 00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:50.000 Speaker 2 And 78% of the participants also were people of color. 00:20:50.000 --> 00:21:05.000 Speaker 2 So this is a lot of words to get to the point of saying that we produced a really nice report with some recommendations that on how to improve single family home ownership within the city of Detroit. 00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:24.000 Speaker 2 And this fellowship is an opportunity to focus on the solutions matrix of those recommendations. So we have good data, we have a once and three generation investment from the federal government through the American Recovery Plan Act and we have a whole bunch of federal resources and state resources. 00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:41.000 Speaker 2 That could be braided to improve homeownership. So this fellowship is focused on how to convene and facilitate and execute an opportunity to see that vision come to fruition. 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:48.000 Speaker 1 Now you mentioned that you were working with the University of Michigan Poverty Solutions Center. 00:21:48.000 --> 00:22:00.000 Speaker 1 On gathering this initial data, but in your fellowship work, are you working with any other partners in the Detroit Community? Because I know you were speaking to the fact that there are specific neighborhoods that are more under. 00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:12.000 Speaker 1 Served in that educational experience and the actual benefit from those educational experiences. So might you be partnering with some of those neighborhood specific organizations too? 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:32.000 Speaker 2 Sure. So, so poverty solutions was the grantor, they funded the research that that we did last year. But the center that I've been working with most closely at the University of Michigan is the Center for Equitable Family and community well-being, which is a center under the School of Social Work, which Doctor Shanks Overseas. 00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:54.000 Speaker 2 So I've we, we we meet every two weeks for at least an hour to talk about the things that we're working on and to continue to drive the collaboration on the research. So we've been doing that for the better part of the year and a half now. So collaborating with the University of Michigan team is is is an ongoing. 00:22:54.000 --> 00:23:11.000 Speaker 2 Enjoyable effort as well as with Southwest Economic solutions. So the team at Swedes and Hector Hernandez and Alex Macon in their housing department. So Alex actually oversees the home buyer education courses for the staff that that, that Swiss employee. 00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:31.000 Speaker 2 Is to provide those those services. So we're also working pretty closely with Detroit future City as well as a number of other organizations like Lisp and Invest Detroit and other groups that have provided data or support or or or some opportunity. 00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:42.000 Speaker 2 Just last week I was providing a briefing for the policy leads for three members of City Council Detroit City Council to to kind of help. 00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:43.000 And. 00:23:43.000 --> 00:24:03.000 Speaker 2 Get this data into the hands of of literal policymakers to look for creative solutions while there's still a chance to seek to influence how ARPA funds and other funds that could be braided with them could be used so. 00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:12.000 Speaker 2 Those members of Council are are, you know, working with the information that we've provided and I've been consistently answering questions and and and off. 00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:32.000 Speaker 2 Bring ideas on on how to drive that that work forward so that ultimately more Detroiters could become homeowners because in Detroit it it's interesting that the the taxpayers passed a a bond proposal called Proposal NI want to say it was in 2018. 00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:38.000 Speaker 2 But don't hold me to that. I have to go look it up recently anyway and. 00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:59.000 Speaker 2 The vast majority of those funds will be used to tear down vacant homes, but there's 1400 homes approximately that were identified by the city as being opportune to stabilize. Stabilization typically means investing in a new roof or some other structural. 00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:02.000 Speaker 2 Fix so. 00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:08.000 Speaker 2 When we mapped out where those homes were located, they're almost all in neighborhoods with very low mortgage. 00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:09.000 Speaker 2 Activity. 00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:22.000 Speaker 2 So what I'm proposing to those that are interested in willing to do something about this is that if we braided funds like CDBG. 00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:39.000 Speaker 2 We owe a workforce dollars and and ARPA, and indeed private philanthropy and other dollars that could be available. Then we could resuscitate those homes and make them available at a very affordable rate to people that have completed this homebuyer education. 00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:59.000 Speaker 2 So we've established demand metric in that 7500 Detroiters took this education opportunity in the period between 2014 and 2019, but less than 20% of those folks actually purchased a home. So there's about 5000 people that invested 8 hours in a class to become a home buyer. 00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:02.000 Speaker 2 That for a number of different reasons weren't able to. 00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:02.000 Speaker 2 Do. 00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:03.000 Speaker 1 That. 00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:09.000 Speaker 2 Meanwhile, you have the city investing in properties that are in communities and neighborhoods that. 00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:09.000 Speaker 2 Are. 00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:17.000 Speaker 2 Very unlikely to receive a mortgage from a normal human purchasing a home. So are we going to choose to subsidize? 00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:26.000 Speaker 2 Property improvements for the investor class or are we going to choose to subsidize property improvements for median income homeowners? 00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:27.000 Speaker 2 With. 00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:36.000 Speaker 2 People that want to become homeowners in the city of Detroit, and I think it's well past time that we invest in our neighbors rather than investors. 00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:52.000 Speaker 1 So through your research experience so far, have you spoken with any of those 5000 people, for example, or other people just in general who may have noted that they're interested in becoming the first time home? 00:26:52.000 --> 00:27:01.000 Speaker 1 And sharing their experiences as to why or what barrier they faced in actually using that education and putting it to use and buying that first home. 00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:11.000 Speaker 2 Sure. So it's not just education that that participants receive. They also receive opportunities for down payment assistance. So Michigan. 00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:22.000 Speaker 2 State housing and Development authority. You can receive up to $10,000 in down payment assistance if you complete this class and and meet the lending requirements for Mr. Loans. 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:41.000 Speaker 2 So we did talk with several 100 of of these program participants through a survey. So as a part of our research in 2021 and it's included in the report that we published, there is a tremendous amount of detail about the experience that home buyer education participants had. 00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:57.000 Speaker 2 In the city with a laundry list of reasons why they did not buy home, and for those that did buy homes, we asked them additional questions about what it was and where they bought it and how much their mortgage payment was. And these sorts of things. So we we do have. 00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:17.000 Speaker 2 Have at least anecdotal survey research. I don't know that enough people were surveyed to get statistically significant responses, but we do have a good amount of feedback from about 220 or so class participants that that took the class at Southwest Economic Solutions during that period. 00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:29.000 Speaker 2 So when we think about, you know, the outcomes for that report and recommendations, we had an op-ed published in the Free Press in January of 2022 that you can find pretty easily through your favorite search. 00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:52.000 Speaker 2 Engine and the the the recommendations coming out of the report where one we need to support the education ecosystem within the city, the 14 home buyer, education agencies that we received hub data from are generally speaking under resourced, do the things that they're very good at doing which is helping people. 00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:56.000 Speaker 2 Understand the home buying process and become successful homeowners. 00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:08.000 Speaker 2 So I'm working with Detroit Future City on how we can best support and further convene those those home buyer education agencies. The other two recommendations are that first day. 00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:26.000 Speaker 2 A fund needs to be established to allow community development organizations to acquire and rehab these single family homes. Because the financing and and patient capital that's required to do that work is not readily available. 00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:27.000 Speaker 2 In the ecosystem. 00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:38.000 Speaker 2 In fact, almost 100% of the city of Detroit's affordable housing funds are exclusively focused on multifamily developments. 00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:49.000 Speaker 2 But multifamily is not the only solution to affordability, and multifamily also does not offer the opportunity to grow intergenerational wealth through equity building. 00:29:49.000 --> 00:30:00.000 Speaker 2 So there's there's a dramatic missing gap in the affordable housing funding system that the city has. 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:18.000 Speaker 2 The the second portion of the that piece or the third recommendation for the report, it's probably a better way to put it, is that a portfolio mortgage fund needs to be established to finance the sale of these properties to these individuals that take class. 00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:29.000 Speaker 2 If there's anything that can be taken out of the report outside of this demand metric for single family housing for first time home buyers, it is that the. 00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:37.000 Speaker 2 Commercial and residential mortgage market has objectively failed to traders. 00:30:37.000 --> 00:31:00.000 Speaker 2 That there are 10s of thousands of property transfers every year that are in the cash market or the Gray market and that there are volumes of data available showing that home mortgages are not made to Detroiters and anywhere near the same ratio that they would be in adjacent suburban communities. 00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:16.000 Speaker 2 Where the city just happens to be about 80% African American and is still suffering the legacy of redlining and other federal and and lender policies. 00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:36.000 Speaker 2 It's really hard to make a case that the housing market interventions that have been employed by the city and lenders have moved the needle at all. So when when we look at that a portfolio mortgage product is essentially a loan that would come from an entity that. 00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:40.000 Speaker 2 Carries that mortgage on their own balance. 00:31:40.000 --> 00:32:01.000 Speaker 2 The the retail lending market that you if you go to apply for a mortgage from your local credit union or a bank or a mortgage broker is going to run you through a series of algorithms to determine if you're qualified by their standards and by federal lending standards to receive a mortgage. 00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:23.000 Speaker 2 There is not necessarily a straight line correlation between that determination in your actual ability to pay on a mortgage, so the system filters out individuals with moderate and low incomes. It also serves to filter out individuals who are purchasing properties that are generally speaking less than $100,000 in value. 00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:31.000 Speaker 2 The lending institution simply does not make enough money off a low dollar transaction to make it worth their time. 00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:51.000 Speaker 2 So they'll never say explicitly A lender being they a lender, will never say explicitly that they will not lend below a certain amount or they shouldn't because there is no allowance for cutting off a loan due to a mortgage. The state of Michigan, the minimum. 00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:54.000 Speaker 2 Mortgage amount is $10,000 and there is no minimum. 00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:55.000 Speaker 2 At the federal level. 00:32:55.000 --> 00:33:11.000 Speaker 2 So you should be able to get a mortgage just as easily at $40,000 as you would at $400,000, but in reality it doesn't work that way. So a portfolio mortgage product is absolutely critical because the. 00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:31.000 Speaker 2 Detroiters that are taking these education programs for a number of different reasons do not meet the lending profiles that are preferred by the retail lending market, so a little bit of word soup there. But that's to say that individuals with credit scores below 620. 00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:35.000 Speaker 2 Which there's lots of reasons why somebody might have credit score below 620 that are not necessarily even a fault. 00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:37.000 Speaker 2 Of their own. 00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:58.000 Speaker 2 And low dollar lending amounts sort of converge to say that they're not an ideal lending opportunity for retail lenders. So we have some anecdote work where expiring lightech homes, so subsidized single family homes. 00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:00.000 Speaker 2 Through low income tax credits. 00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:21.000 Speaker 2 Have expired in in Southwest Economic Solutions as to transition those to to mortgages with their own portfolio products and in the 45 cases they have a 0% default rate even through the pandemic. So we believe that if a person is is gainfully employed. 00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:28.000 Speaker 2 And is able to, you know, commit a portion of their income to paying rent. 00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:46.000 Speaker 2 Rent tends to be 3040% more than a mortgage in many cases in these neighborhoods, so if they can afford to pay more for rent than they can afford to pay less for a mortgage and gain equity. So the narrative that we're leaving is that. 00:34:46.000 --> 00:35:07.000 Speaker 2 If we're willing to invest an awful lot of time and energy subsidizing corporations and investors with public dollars, then perhaps we can invest a portion of that enthusiasm into making our neighbors homeowners so that they're availed this intergenerational wealth building. 00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:26.000 Speaker 1 And I think you just identified one of maybe the barriers to load and moderate income. Detroiters actually pursuing their first home purchase and being that they don't perceive that they have the ability to due to this societal motion. 00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:43.000 Speaker 1 But while mortgage is more expensive than rent, and I think you just dismantled that premise and your comment, now how does your work? Or does your work really address kind of undoing that false perception in the Detroit community? 00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:47.000 Speaker 2 It's a lot about 1:00 to 1:00 education, so these HUD. 00:35:47.000 --> 00:36:06.000 Speaker 2 Certified home buyer education programs is is one way to do that. Education another way to do that education is is in my own work. When I list a home for sale in the city of Detroit, I will oftentimes geofence advertising to a short. 00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:11.000 Speaker 2 Radius around where that home is located so that. 00:36:11.000 --> 00:36:19.000 Speaker 2 Neighbors in that community are likely to see the home purchase opportunity. 00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:28.000 Speaker 2 Over 90% of the individuals that respond to those ads through direct messages or e-mail. 00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:37.000 Speaker 2 Asked if the seller is offering land contract or rent to own opportunities. 00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:57.000 Speaker 2 My typical response is that I do not engage in payday lending for housing, which is essentially what many land contract and rent to own opportunities are. There are some very nice land contract options that can be utilized, but generally speaking they're not. 00:36:57.000 --> 00:37:12.000 Speaker 2 Utilized in the same way in, in in low income urban environments as they are in. In other ways throughout the state, particularly in in, in rural communities where large pieces of land would be sold from one person to another through like. 00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:33.000 Speaker 2 Yeah. So I invite these individuals that are asking these questions to consider taking a home buyer education course and working with the providers within that learning experience to learn more about their credit profiles and. 00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:43.000 Speaker 2 How much money you need to save and you know to qualify for the missed the down payment assistance program, you need to have at least $1000 saved in the. 00:37:43.000 --> 00:38:04.000 Speaker 2 $1000 is not a insurmountable figure if you put your mind to it and are saving for a year or two or three, whatever your means are. So qualifying for the Mr. program includes saving at least $1000 for your purchase and working to get your credit score. 00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:09.000 Speaker 2 Within the the parameters that they require. 00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:13.000 Speaker 2 Vast majority of individuals that I talked to have thus far not been willing to go. 00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:14.000 Speaker 2 On that process. 00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:29.000 Speaker 2 So there's a larger ecosystem, education opportunities. So we know there's 5000 people that took these classes that were not able to purchase a home. And how can we support the education ecosystem to continue following up with these individuals to. 00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:48.000 Speaker 2 To keep them with the opportunities and and care that's required to move someone from you know a multi job situation where you know life happens and this buying a house thing didn't work out. So I'm just going to stay doing what I'm doing. 00:38:48.000 --> 00:39:08.000 Speaker 2 Those education opportunities are numerous with Realtors. There are numerous with lenders who could be providing financial education in ways that are much more germane to the people that they're talking to. A lot of financial education is, is, surprisingly. 00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:10.000 Speaker 2 Condescending. 00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:30.000 Speaker 2 So thinking about ways to to make the make that education so culturally relevant to individuals who are actually very sophisticated with their financial planning tools to make ends meet, but maybe don't have the volume of resources. 00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:39.000 Speaker 2 That these classes are designed to educate around so thinking about that sort of cultural context I think is really important in in the education space. 00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:58.000 Speaker 2 And ultimately having the patients and the care to help someone move from a mindset of limited resources to a mindset of abundant resources and and that transition is one that takes time and and care. 00:39:58.000 --> 00:40:12.000 Speaker 1 I really appreciate your comment about centering cultural competency, because I'm sure, as you've noticed in moving to different communities of your own, you have noticed that different communities value different cultural norms. Value differs. 00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:33.000 Speaker 1 Social norms differently, and so centering that, especially in Detroit, which is as you stated the largest population or largest density density of African American people in the nation, you know, really putting that in the forefront is essential. And creating that truly equitable experience to that education. 00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:35.000 Speaker 1 Now. 00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:56.000 Speaker 1 I want to keep pushing this conversation forward and addressing some of the advantages of establishing this well functioning home buyer ecosystem not only for low and medium income Detroiters, but for all Detroiters in general. So what is the benefit, really to having more homeowners overall in the city? 00:40:56.000 --> 00:41:00.000 Speaker 1 Can you speak to that? 00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:18.000 Speaker 2 Thinking about the benefit of homeownership in general Semcog so Southeast Michigan Council of Governments, I remember 7 or 10 years ago, whenever it was, I was sitting in one of their presentations and they showed the accumulation of wealth. 00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:37.000 Speaker 2 Over time, that was spurred by the subsidies that GI's received for their families after World War 2IN leaving the city of Detroit to move to a a suburb where they could receive these federally guaranteed loans. 00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:50.000 Speaker 2 The wealth accumulation among Caucasian households has been in steady incline up until the, you know, 2008 recession when everybody. 00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:51.000 Speaker 2 Took it right. 00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:58.000 Speaker 2 So you see this, this, this steadily increasing line on the bar chart over time. 00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:02.000 Speaker 2 All other people of color. 00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:19.000 Speaker 2 Had that line moving in a downward trend. And when you look at that information nationally, you have essentially the aggregate wealth communities of color going negative within our lifetimes. 00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:39.000 Speaker 2 For a whole bunch of for different reasons, including predatory student loan patterns, the bankability of some of these communities due to lender bricks and mortar decline within communities of color, etcetera. So I think the the. 00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:50.000 Speaker 2 The data shows irrefutably that homeownership has been away for wealth to be transferred between generations and Caucasian communities, and I believe. 00:42:50.000 --> 00:43:07.000 Speaker 2 The same is true in communities of color, but to a lesser extent because poverty has been such a large portion of that community experience. So home ownership is the. 00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:24.000 Speaker 2 Easiest way to look at growing wealth within the community because homes typically appreciate in value over time and don't lose value except during the recession of 2008. Trauma that we all experience. 00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:46.000 Speaker 2 And you know, even today, top topically, you see home prices increasing in double digit fashions year over year. I just actually looked up in Washtenaw County where Ann Arbor and Ypsilanti are located between 2019 and 2021, there was a 33% increase in rental prices. 00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:52.000 Speaker 2 Amongst the properties listed for rent in the MLS. 00:43:52.000 --> 00:44:11.000 Speaker 2 So if there's a 33% increase in rent, you can extrapolate out. You know what those increases are in in the the community. So inevitably someone is purchasing the home and they live in it for some period of time. In an ideal situation, they would live in it long enough where they pay off the property. 00:44:11.000 --> 00:44:20.000 Speaker 2 And then have this financial asset without having to pay for the privilege of living in your home through rent or mortgage. 00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:39.000 Speaker 2 When you approach the end of your life and you choose to do something else with your living situation, then you sell that property and reap those gains. At that time. Tax law allows someone who sells their principal property not to have to pay capital gains on that sale. 00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:53.000 Speaker 2 Up to a certain amount, so it's one of the few opportunities that you have in life to get a tax free infusion of dollars through the time and and effort that you invested in your property. 00:44:53.000 --> 00:45:06.000 Speaker 2 So if property values are rising in all communities, including the city of Detroit, and your homeowner, and you choose to move to a condo rather than a A2 story, Victorian style. 00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:07.000 Speaker 2 Home. 00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:11.000 Speaker 2 Then you should be able to cash out those dollars and then reinvest them in your new. 00:45:11.000 --> 00:45:12.000 Speaker 2 Home. 00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:13.000 Speaker 2 Alternatively as. 00:45:13.000 --> 00:45:16.000 Speaker 2 Many people you know. 00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:35.000 Speaker 2 Eventually meet their maker when you pass. If your asset your home is paid off, then that wealth is typically transferred to other folks within your family or or or circles as as you directed in your will or or. 00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:55.000 Speaker 2 Just so this is what's happened in those Caucasian communities over time that Semcog did a very nice job of sort of detailing. And that can happen in other communities as well. If we make home ownership A realistic option, despite the challenges within the banking and the. 00:45:55.000 --> 00:46:12.000 Speaker 2 The lending communities that that are serve as typically obstacles to that happening. So that's what this project is really all about is figuring out how to work around the known systems, challenges that we have to create a solution that will work for my neighbors. 00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:30.000 Speaker 1 So in moving this project forward and building this ecosystem that you speak of other than the challenges in gathering the initial HUD data, what other barriers have you faced in really, truly, you know creating this initiative and moving into that implementation? 00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:32.000 Speaker 2 So if you've listened to this podcast. 00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:42.000 Speaker 2 Were sent through this conversation. At this point, you know that there's not really a a convenient 45 second elevator pitch to explain how. 00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:43.000 Speaker 2 This stuff works. 00:46:43.000 --> 00:46:51.000 Speaker 2 So it takes time and interest to understand complex systems and. 00:46:51.000 --> 00:47:11.000 Speaker 2 And the home ownership system is complex, so I'll use my own example as an anecdote. I lost about 70% of my income in 2020 when I wasn't allowed to do business, and new contracts for services that I was providing to my clients. 00:47:11.000 --> 00:47:18.000 Speaker 2 We're not forthcoming because everyone was in a period of uncertainty. 00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:31.000 Speaker 2 That income recovered dramatically in 2021, and I decided that it was time to buy another house because I had sold at the end of 2020. 00:47:31.000 --> 00:47:43.000 Speaker 2 When I went to apply for a mortgage, they said, well, you're you're you're self-employed, you own your own company. You had this dramatic hit in income. You don't qualify for mortgage. 00:47:43.000 --> 00:47:53.000 Speaker 2 But I went to a credit union instead and said I would like to determine what the application criteria for your portfolio mortgage. 00:47:53.000 --> 00:47:55.000 Speaker 2 Product would be. 00:47:55.000 --> 00:48:14.000 Speaker 2 So I invested about 13 hours worth of time to complete paperwork and build balance sheets and profit loss statements that were required by that credit union to qualify for a mortgage that would require me to have a 30% down payment. 00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:18.000 Speaker 2 And you know, a purchase price not to exceed I think a. 00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:20.000 Speaker 2 $140,000. 00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:40.000 Speaker 2 So I found a home that I purchased for $107,000 with that 30% down payment plus the closing costs based on capital that I had earned in 2021 and from cashing out a retirement account from back in 2020. So thinking about how to do that. 00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:45.000 Speaker 2 Was was a pretty complex process. 00:48:45.000 --> 00:49:07.000 Speaker 2 And the convenient sort of political narratives that we typically hear are around this false notion of personal responsibility and bootstraps that allow people to make excuses for why large groups of people don't have access to the same things that they think they have. 00:49:07.000 --> 00:49:28.000 Speaker 2 So thinking about how to sort of unravel those complexities is is really, you know, a big part of this process and developed the we've developed, you know materials and and slide decks and and presentations that allow for those interested in investing the time. 00:49:28.000 --> 00:49:35.000 Speaker 2 To you know, actually solve for this challenge rather than put out talking points about the challenge. 00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:56.000 Speaker 1 Now what makes your project innovative? Or in other words, what does your project accomplish or attempt to push forward that you haven't seen with other programs or organizations that have tried to build somewhat of a similar type of ecosystem or provide a similar type of? 00:49:56.000 --> 00:50:01.000 Speaker 1 Educational benefit. 00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:06.000 Speaker 2 Well, the hub data that we obtained on home buyer education agencies has never been utilized in this. 00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:08.000 Speaker 2 Manner before. 00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:20.000 Speaker 2 So this was the first time that we can find the individual agency level outcomes. Information was used to inform analysis of a home buyer. 00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:22.000 Speaker 2 Ecosystem. 00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:42.000 Speaker 2 So I have additional data requests to get all of the other home buyer education agencies in the state of Michigan. Their data for the same time frame because I'd like to see what the experience is in Lansing or Flint or Brighton or pawpaw. 00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:47.000 Speaker 2 Or other communities around the state see what homebuyer education looks. 00:50:47.000 --> 00:51:00.000 Speaker 2 I've also requested data for seven other states so that we can start looking to see our communities of similar population or demographic makeups as the city of Detroit. How do they? 00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:01.000 Speaker 2 Handle these things. 00:51:01.000 --> 00:51:06.000 Speaker 2 So when I first looked at this in September 2020. 00:51:06.000 --> 00:51:19.000 Speaker 2 Detroit had by Hubbs website 16 different homebuyer education agencies, which was twice as many home buyer education agencies as any other city in the United States, with between 600 and 700,000 people. 00:51:19.000 --> 00:51:39.000 Speaker 2 So Memphis, San Antonio, other communities like that in the country have just a handful of these agencies. So that leads me to ask, what do they do in those communities? So there's a whole opportunity to do comparative research, which I believe, you know, satisfies the definition of innovative. 00:51:39.000 --> 00:51:46.000 Speaker 2 To determine you know what our best practices from a slightly different lens than perhaps the common literature has considered. 00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:48.000 To this point. 00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:55.000 Speaker 2 As well as you know, just the opportunity to convene partnerships. 00:51:55.000 --> 00:52:16.000 Speaker 2 If the States Tier 1 universities, figuring out ways to purposefully braid resources from University of Michigan and Michigan State University have been a goal of mine for a long time, which I think we're successfully doing through this, this Innovation, fellowship and bringing in Wayne State University. 00:52:16.000 --> 00:52:24.000 Speaker 2 Do this process as well because they do a tremendous amount of work in their home city of Detroit, so thinking about ways to leverage. 00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:44.000 Speaker 2 Traditionally, siloed university resources to focus on wealth building in this state's largest city is, I think, innovative as well. So I think there's a lot of different innovation lenses that could be applied to this research and and frankly, just having an open and honest. 00:52:44.000 --> 00:53:00.000 Speaker 2 Discussion that's informed strongly by a verifiable data is arguably innovative in this day and age of of rhetoric and platitudes, as spouted on social media and cable media outlet. 00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:12.000 Speaker 2 So thinking how to reground ourself in the present and the realities that we actually have in front of us rather than some long list of opinions is is arguably innovative on its own right now as well. 00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:32.000 Speaker 1 That's true, especially due to increasing inflammatory language that we see being used when speaking about inequities or on social media and spreading misinformation. I think that you definitely have a strong point in saying that innovation in and of itself can come or is driven by the data, and if you. 00:53:32.000 --> 00:53:36.000 Speaker 1 Decide to use it in that way in which. 00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:52.000 Speaker 1 You have and. So in speaking to the innovative nature of your project, how does your project also move? The REI mission forward and that, you know, equitable development and the goals of financial resilience specifically? 00:53:52.000 --> 00:54:09.000 Speaker 2 Sure. So I think I was first introduced the Aria Center in 2012 and 2013 because I authored a paper for another fellow in collaboration with another fellow looking at crowdfunding and community based capital so. 00:54:09.000 --> 00:54:29.000 Speaker 2 When thinking about building a fund to allow for the renovation of single family homes by nonprofit community development organizations, or how to build a portfolio mortgage product to allow traditionally unbanked individuals to purchase homes. 00:54:29.000 --> 00:54:33.000 Speaker 2 You have to become familiar with how capital stacks. 00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:34.000 Speaker 2 Are built. 00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:47.000 Speaker 2 So capital stacks are the the various funding resources that accumulate to our relatively large number that allow an organization or group of organizations to do this kind. 00:54:47.000 --> 00:54:49.000 Speaker 2 So. 00:54:49.000 --> 00:55:09.000 Speaker 2 Pulling a number from thin air, say we needed to come up with $50,000,000 to be able to fund home rehabilitations and we needed to come up with $70 million again. Pulled from thin air to create a portfolio mortgage product. I have more solid numbers, but I don't feel comfortable. 00:55:09.000 --> 00:55:19.000 Speaker 2 Discussing the steps, so I'm gonna pull those numbers from thinner. So where does one come up with 50 million and then another 70 million, right. So talking about $120 million. Most normal humans don't. 00:55:19.000 --> 00:55:20.000 Speaker 2 Have access to that kind of. 00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:32.000 Speaker 2 So we can look at government funding sources. We can look at impact investing, which is the concept that institutional investors like. 00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:45.000 Speaker 2 University trust funds or pension funds, or philanthropy who invest practically 100% of their. 00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:46.000 Speaker 2 Investments into wall. 00:55:46.000 --> 00:56:07.000 Speaker 2 Street if they peeled off 1-2 or 3% of their funds and invested it in a local capital fund to allow for the renovation of homes or portfolio mortgage product, then the MSU Board of Trustees and the University of Michigan Board of Trustees and the. 00:56:07.000 --> 00:56:09.000 Speaker 2 State of Michigan pension fund. 00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:10.000 And. 00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:29.000 Speaker 2 You know could have a tremendous impact that's directly measurable on the communities that they actually operate in rather than MSU, for example, I believe has over almost 550 investments in different funds which. 00:56:29.000 --> 00:56:36.000 Speaker 2 Total the you know 2 plus billion dollars that the university invests for, it's about. 00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:42.000 Speaker 2 University of Michigan's endowment is is many times more than Michigan states. 00:56:42.000 --> 00:57:04.000 Speaker 2 Wayne State has an endowment, the pension board state of Michigan employee pension program has tremendous endowment that is invested. And then even like the Michigan DNR Trust Fund, which was created by voters to support parks, you know, all of these sort of institutional 10s of billions of dollars and resources. 00:57:04.000 --> 00:57:19.000 Speaker 2 That are invested in Wall Street. If we could figure out a slice to made be made available for a Housing Trust fund in Traverse City, or Charlevoix or Detroit, you know could be capital that would stand up those. 00:57:19.000 --> 00:57:39.000 Speaker 2 So in in thinking about these, these avenues for opportunity and connecting them across REI Fellows, so working with other fellows from this year and past years, I've I've been inspired by the work that they've done and said that, you know, I think the. 00:57:39.000 --> 00:57:52.000 Speaker 2 The project that I'm working on is entirely consistent with the long history of research and and narratives at the MRI center has driven through these fellowship programs opportunities. 00:57:52.000 --> 00:57:54.000 Yeah. 00:57:54.000 --> 00:58:11.000 Speaker 1 So you previously spoke to this in a high level way in which you spoke about how you identified in San Antonio for example. They also have these education institutions, first time home buyer, education institutions now. 00:58:11.000 --> 00:58:18.000 Speaker 1 What is the potential for an initiative like yours and building this functioning ecosystem? 00:58:18.000 --> 00:58:37.000 Speaker 1 To be implemented in communities across Michigan as well as beyond Michigan and what tools or partnerships have you identified from your experience in conducting this research so far might be helpful to other communities who are looking to create this kind of similar infrastructure? 00:58:37.000 --> 00:58:50.000 Speaker 2 So access to equitable, affordable housing is is just a much a challenge in Michigan's rural communities, as it is in suburban communities, as it is in traditional urban. 00:58:50.000 --> 00:58:56.000 Speaker 2 Things so affordable housing is is the ubiquitous challenge that. 00:58:56.000 --> 00:59:04.000 Speaker 2 All communities are trying to solve, so if something were to be learned from this project and other communities, it's that. 00:59:04.000 --> 00:59:18.000 Speaker 2 Having access to the data to understand where property transfers are, what percentages are on mortgages, understanding what the home buyer education ecosystem looks like, how many people are actually taking those. 00:59:18.000 --> 00:59:38.000 Speaker 2 Programs where are Mr. Down payment assistance loans happening in the Community? Is the Mr. product made available to everyone who couldn't qualify? And are there other institutions that are investing in in buyer down payment programs through the community? 00:59:38.000 --> 00:59:54.000 Speaker 2 The Investment Act, a local Community Foundation etcetera, etcetera, so really there's a there's a convening opportunity in regions around the state to address this hyperlocal challenge with local resource. 00:59:54.000 --> 01:00:14.000 Speaker 2 And then while we are in this unique window of having a tremendous amount of federal dollars available, are there ways to utilize these ARPA dollars to match other federal funding sources that typically require a one to one match? 01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:23.000 Speaker 2 Either through the Economic Development Administration, EDA or perhaps through community development block grants, CDBG funds. 01:00:23.000 --> 01:00:42.000 Speaker 2 Or Community Foundation, who's looking to make housing investments that if you had federal resources that could match dollars that are coming out of the local family or Community Foundation or even a giant national foundation like, you know, Michigan has has a number. 01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:45.000 Speaker 2 Like Kellogg and Kresge, and. 01:00:45.000 --> 01:01:05.000 Speaker 2 And and others that that really can have a tremendous impact. And I think philanthropy has been actively asking where are the opportunities to amplify these investments for the benefit of our neighbors. So I think if if there were a a template to be looked at for doing this work in another community. 01:01:05.000 --> 01:01:16.000 Speaker 2 First and foremost, I'm always happy to jump on a phone call or resume or drive to your community to have the whiteboard session to help you map this out in your part of. 01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:35.000 Speaker 2 And secondarily, I think you know, just by understanding the actors that are participating in the system and finding the Realtors who are really passionate about community service more than client prospecting to help advise the. 01:01:35.000 --> 01:01:48.000 Speaker 2 Decisions that are made and then thinking are the lenders in your Community truly responsive to the needs of your Community? You can begin discovering some of that information through the same data source that we use. 01:01:48.000 --> 01:02:08.000 Speaker 2 Which is the Humpty data from the federal government. So home Mortgage Disclosure Act is the data set that you anyone can download from federal website and begin looking at all of the mortgage originations and mortgage denials within the communities that are germane to your interests so. 01:02:08.000 --> 01:02:16.000 Speaker 2 There's a whole bunch of different ways to do it, but ultimately I think it needs to be informed and steadily steeped in reality. And then. 01:02:16.000 --> 01:02:33.000 Speaker 2 And ask a lot of questions of people that have been through homebuyer education programs to figure out what their actual needs are rather than sitting in a boardroom and saying lots of opinions about what those people need, whoever those people are in the context of. 01:02:33.000 --> 01:02:34.000 Speaker 2 Where you live. 01:02:34.000 --> 01:02:41.000 Speaker 1 That's great. Instead of superimposing your perceptions of what those people feel or experience exactly, go ask the actual people they're. 01:02:41.000 --> 01:02:44.000 Speaker 2 Go ask. 01:02:44.000 --> 01:02:46.000 Speaker 1 In your community. 01:02:46.000 --> 01:02:59.000 Speaker 1 So is there anything else you would like to address about your research or about opportunities for building local financial resilience that we haven't discussed today before wrapping up our conversation? 01:02:59.000 --> 01:03:19.000 Speaker 2 I'm I'm slightly remiss because I don't have the innovate Michigan summit information in front of me, but I trust that that information could be added at the end of this podcast to encourage listeners to come to the summit. I believe it's going to be in September at the Kellogg Center in Lansing or East Lansing, East Lansing. 01:03:19.000 --> 01:03:39.000 Speaker 2 And come and listen to what students and fellows and associated small business entrepreneurs are are focused on for the solutions that they've come up with through their own work streams. I'll be presenting at that summit on the outcomes of of this fellowship. 01:03:39.000 --> 01:03:56.000 Speaker 2 I'll be producing a A, probably a a brief white paper that basically provides the template for the work that I've done over this year, so that if someone wants to read in more detail about. 01:03:56.000 --> 01:04:16.000 Speaker 2 My response to the previous question that that would be detailed in a digital or paper document to you know, see how the dots are connected through this work over time. So I think takeaways a really hard problems can be work done with time and dedication. 01:04:16.000 --> 01:04:23.000 Speaker 2 And if you're not doing it and you don't see want someone else doing it, then you need to support someone. 01:04:23.000 --> 01:04:24.000 Speaker 2 To do that work. 01:04:24.000 --> 01:04:26.000 Speaker 2 Or figure out how to do it. 01:04:26.000 --> 01:04:46.000 Speaker 2 And that kind of work is going to be showcased at the innovative, innovative Michigan Summit later this year. And I think it's a really awesome opportunity to seek inspiration and rather than investing as much time as we all tend to invest in complaining about things. 01:04:46.000 --> 01:04:53.000 Speaker 2 That every complaint should come with some sort of good faith attempt at a solution matrix. 01:04:53.000 --> 01:05:14.000 Speaker 2 Because there are solutions for everything that we complain about, and if we're in the habit of complaining into social media or to our family or to our kids, or to whoever your audience is, then that's a habit that you can break and inspire others to do something about. If you choose to seek out solutions to those challenges. 01:05:14.000 --> 01:05:19.000 Speaker 2 And talk about them just as much as you complain about things. 01:05:19.000 --> 01:05:26.000 Speaker 1 Some great advice that goes beyond just your project, but also and just how to conduct yourself as a great professional and person. 01:05:26.000 --> 01:05:38.000 Speaker 2 That's what the project is about. Is, is we did the research and we complained about a whole bunch of data that's really challenging. We complained about it. I think in a productive way, but it was still, you know. 01:05:38.000 --> 01:05:42.000 Speaker 2 The list of of challenges and perhaps. 01:05:42.000 --> 01:06:03.000 Speaker 2 And to have this fellowship be an opportunity to create a solutions matrix that can benefit the Community that I live in and communities across the state and arguably around the country is is a privilege that that shouldn't be understated. So we need to give back just as much as we take, if not more. 01:06:03.000 --> 01:06:20.000 Speaker 2 I believe, and this is one way to to operationalize that given back side of things is to help educate and and make solutions available for intractable problems that can be solved if we choose to get that time and energy. 01:06:20.000 --> 01:06:40.000 Speaker 1 Non response to your previous suggestion about truly engaging with this research and other research provided by other REI fellows about the Innovation Michigan Summit. That event will actually be held on Thursday, April 18th of this year at the Kellogg Hotel and Conference Center in Easter. 01:06:40.000 --> 01:06:54.000 Speaker 1 So those are the details that you can definitely find out more at the CAD social media as well as on our website. So stay tuned For more information on that. 01:06:54.000 --> 01:07:10.000 Speaker 1 And with that, I think it's time to wrap up our conversation for today. So on behalf of the CV office, David, I would like to thank you for joining us today and we look forward to the completion of your research and hearing more about the whole process in August. 01:07:10.000 --> 01:07:15.000 Speaker 1 This has been community and university, with David Palmer discussing his project, growing a well functioning home buyer ecosystem for low median income, Detroiters to build financial resilience in Detroit, TuneIn next time for another interview with an REI project leader.