WEBVTT 00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:21.000 Speaker 1 Hello and welcome to Community and University, the MSU Center for Community and Economic Development podcast aimed at providing outreach to both community members and students throughout the state of Michigan. 00:00:21.000 --> 00:00:24.000 Speaker 1 The Michigan State University, U.S. 00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:36.000 Speaker 1 Economic Development Administration, University Center for Regional Economic Innovation, his mission is to stimulate innovative economic development in the most distressed communities within Michigan. 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:46.000 Speaker 1 The REI University Center embraces a culture of regional collaboration and knowledge sharing between economic development professionals and committed scholars. 00:00:46.000 --> 00:01:02.000 Speaker 1 The center's model provides responsive community engagement, strategic partnerships, and collaborative learning to support the creation and identification of innovative tools, models, and practices to increase the number of small businesses, create access to job skill development, 00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:13.000 Speaker 1 improve public infrastructure, advance high-growth entrepreneurship, and encourage global competitiveness to strengthen underserved communities and historically excluded citizens. 00:01:13.000 --> 00:01:26.000 Speaker 1 The REI University Center's most recent award focuses on four key pillars of community and economic development that together will build up the resilience, sustainability, and equity within the communities in which it partners. 00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:28.000 Speaker 1 The 4 pillars include 00:01:28.000 --> 00:01:34.000 Speaker 1 resiliency planning, financial resilience, circular economies, and 21st century communications. 00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:58.000 Speaker 1 The University Center will work with community partners to address these themes in Michigan Economic Development Corporation identified redevelopment-ready communities containing opportunity zone census tracts and or large concentrations of ALICE populations or those who are asset-limited, income-constrained, employed. 00:01:58.000 --> 00:02:02.000 Speaker 1 I am Emma Gilbert and I am one of the hosts for Community and University. 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:17.000 Speaker 1 Today we will be spotlighting one of REI Center's Innovation Fellows, Tony Willis, who is working on a project entitled Exploring Communal and Cooperative Investment Models for Lansing, aimed at building financial resilience in the Lansing community. 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:26.000 Speaker 1 Innovation Fellows provide on-the-ground support and coordination to move concepts to actions, implementing new economic development tools, models, and policies. 00:02:26.000 --> 00:02:30.000 Speaker 1 Welcome to the CCED podcast, Tony. 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:32.000 Speaker 2 Hey, thank you Emma so much for having me. 00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:34.000 Speaker 2 Pleasure to be here. 00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:44.000 Speaker 1 So before we begin talking about your project, would you mind providing our listeners with a brief overview of your educational and professional background? 00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:45.000 Speaker 2 Yeah, absolutely. 00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:47.000 Speaker 2 So 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:55.000 Speaker 2 I started off at Lansing Community College, did a number of years there, then I transferred to Michigan State University. 00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:59.000 Speaker 2 So I had the full Lansing collegiate experience, I would say. 00:02:59.000 --> 00:03:13.000 Speaker 2 And then from that point, I was able to get to start my career in business banking at MSU Federal Credit Union, which I worked at for a number of years, five to six years or so. 00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:15.000 Speaker 2 And during that time, 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:21.000 Speaker 2 At the credit union, we were just getting started through business lending, this brand new division. 00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:28.000 Speaker 2 And part of my task was to reach out to different partners and organizations that help support small businesses. 00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:38.000 Speaker 2 And one of those organizations was LEAP, where I met my predecessor, Jeff Smith at, through a pitch competition called The Hatching. 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:42.000 Speaker 2 And, you know, shortly after that, they had a position open, I applied. 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:43.000 Speaker 2 And 00:03:43.000 --> 00:03:53.000 Speaker 2 two executive applying, got the role and I started and I've been at LEAP for over 8 years now in economic development for the greater region. 00:03:53.000 --> 00:04:04.000 Speaker 2 And I have multiple roles within that position, everything from VP of entrepreneurship to corporate innovation and now as a chief equity development officer. 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:07.000 Speaker 2 And so that's my pathway. 00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:16.000 Speaker 2 Further into economic development, I've been doing a number of projects outside of LEAP as well, helps keep me going and curious as well, beyond the great work we do at LEAP. 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:20.000 Speaker 2 So yeah, that's a little overview of me, Emma. 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:22.000 Speaker 1 Well, that sounds awesome. 00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:27.000 Speaker 1 I think that provides a good overview of how you got into economic development work. 00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:37.000 Speaker 1 So what key changes have you discovered or observed since you first started working in Lansing beyond your educational experience? 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:39.000 Speaker 2 Yeah, so a number of key things. 00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:56.000 Speaker 2 I think, you know, since my time over the last, you know, 8 1/2 to 9 years at Leap Year, you can see a strong energy of reinvestment in the community taking place. 00:04:56.000 --> 00:05:08.000 Speaker 2 You can also sense, and this is like, as I said, over the last 8 1/2 years in this row, I've noticed a number of investments, both public and private, in key areas of the community. 00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:12.000 Speaker 2 Leap office is located in Rio Town, which is just south of downtown. 00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:22.000 Speaker 2 That area, dramatically changed after both the infrastructure of Streetscape and BWL making it its headquarters located there. 00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:32.000 Speaker 2 And so more businesses grew to support that and just like the hipster type feel was fully in full swing at that space. 00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:37.000 Speaker 2 But also currently, like over the last year and a half, 00:05:37.000 --> 00:05:44.000 Speaker 2 The Lansing region has been, red hot when it comes to outside investment. 00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:48.000 Speaker 2 And knowing that we're located, we are essentially located throughout the state. 00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:52.000 Speaker 2 So it's a good space when it comes to logistics. 00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:56.000 Speaker 2 Michigan as a whole has great, environmental climate protection. 00:05:56.000 --> 00:06:10.000 Speaker 2 That's one of our assets being right here in the Midwest and in the north part of the state, and in the Midwest as well, is that we really don't have that many geographic or environmental disruptions that take place, such as tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, have you. 00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:14.000 Speaker 2 So we have a good safety field. 00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:19.000 Speaker 2 But beyond that, our industry in manufacturing 00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:23.000 Speaker 2 has posed as a great resource when it comes to talent. 00:06:23.000 --> 00:06:35.000 Speaker 2 And so corporations, especially looking at the manufacturing space, see that as a great way to pull all-star talent, knowing that we have a great educated population. 00:06:35.000 --> 00:06:38.000 Speaker 2 And then finally, the cost of living. 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:44.000 Speaker 2 Lansing still remains to be affordable for a lot of folks to have a great cost 00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:47.000 Speaker 2 a great lifestyle and not a super high and expensive cost. 00:06:47.000 --> 00:07:01.000 Speaker 2 So those are the key factors that I've seen being leading to some of the changes in the increased investment in our region over the last, you know, eight years or so. 00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:10.000 Speaker 1 So it sounds like building up the resilience of the city overall has been part of its chief goals in the past few years. 00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:17.000 Speaker 1 Would you say that is a correct characterization of what Lansing has been up to? 00:07:17.000 --> 00:07:19.000 Speaker 2 Yeah, resilience for sure. 00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:20.000 Speaker 2 That is definitely correct. 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:26.000 Speaker 2 You know, we're trying to make sure that we can best 00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:51.000 Speaker 2 best stabilize ourselves for any other upcoming crisis and that we can be as dependent upon our local infrastructure from when it comes to agriculture and food production to other types of emergency crises as well as centralized here and when it comes to developing a talent pool that can meet the needs of our current workforce in the future. 00:07:51.000 --> 00:07:56.000 Speaker 2 So resiliency is a great way to describe what's going on, I would say. 00:07:56.000 --> 00:08:02.000 Speaker 1 It sounds like your project definitely has some great inroads with the work that's already going on in the city. 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:05.000 Speaker 1 So let's get more into that. 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:21.000 Speaker 1 So for your innovation fellowship project, can you provide the audience with an overview of what your project is about, the research that you are conducting, and some of the goals that you have and how the project will eventually be implemented? 00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:24.000 Speaker 2 Yeah, absolutely. 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:41.000 Speaker 2 When it comes to the project for the fellowship here, as you mentioned earlier in the intro, it's all about the communal focus of tools to help build wealth and to help create a more equitable approach for development as a whole. 00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:51.000 Speaker 2 The 2 aspects that I'm looking into, first being a community investment trust, a CIT, 00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:56.000 Speaker 2 and the second being a worker-owner cooperative space. 00:08:56.000 --> 00:09:15.000 Speaker 2 Both of these tools and business models, I believe, can generate access to wealth and access to stability and local control and authority that is rarely seen or not seen as it should be in the greater economy. 00:09:15.000 --> 00:09:19.000 Speaker 2 And so those are the two areas I'm focusing on. 00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:20.000 Speaker 2 to develop those. 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:41.000 Speaker 2 One of those are completely myself and working with, that's the CIT model on my own here as an individual working with the local government, board of commissioners, as well as the city of Lansing itself to look at the strategy and the feasibility of that and develop that plan. 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:49.000 Speaker 2 And then the other one, working in partnership with LEAP is to further the ability for the 00:09:49.000 --> 00:09:53.000 Speaker 2 worker owner cooperative and related to succession planning. 00:09:53.000 --> 00:09:57.000 Speaker 2 I think one of the next, this is my personal opinion for sure. 00:09:57.000 --> 00:10:07.000 Speaker 2 And one of the next financial crises we may see is that when a number of baby boomers that own businesses want to retire, they don't have a succession plan in place. 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:15.000 Speaker 2 And so they will just start to close down their doors, which is a like a triple net loss across the board that the 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:22.000 Speaker 2 Community loses because they could, a thriving business just closes because the person doesn't want to work it anymore. 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:25.000 Speaker 2 Employees lose because they don't have a job. 00:10:25.000 --> 00:10:38.000 Speaker 2 And then the business owner has a lost opportunity where they could sell that business and retain, get additional income and have their legacy retained as well. 00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:41.000 Speaker 2 So in those manners, I think 00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:59.000 Speaker 2 The worker-owner session plan will help alleviate that by allowing workers to take ownership of a business and proceed and also increase their income as individuals, the owners, and the community wins sometimes the owner, so the former owner at that point. 00:10:59.000 --> 00:11:01.000 Speaker 2 Yeah, so I'm excited about this, the project. 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:06.000 Speaker 2 And this fellowship allows us to really take, and myself to take an advanced look 00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:14.000 Speaker 2 and commitment to have these things grow and see where they end up over this next six months here. 00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:20.000 Speaker 1 So one of the goals of your project was a community investment trust, if I heard you correctly. 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:29.000 Speaker 1 Now, can you provide a little bit of a description of what a community investment trust actually is? 00:11:29.000 --> 00:11:31.000 Speaker 2 Yeah, absolutely. 00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:34.000 Speaker 2 So a community investment trust 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:44.000 Speaker 2 is a instancy, an actual trust, where an organization creates a trust to hold and purchase a property. 00:11:44.000 --> 00:12:02.000 Speaker 2 This property is owned by the trustees, which are individuals who, from certain zip codes, can contribute into the trust through monthly installments, whether that's $10 up to $100 a month. 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:03.000 Speaker 2 And 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:10.000 Speaker 2 This allows a collective, a community collective to own a property, a commercial property for that fact. 00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:14.000 Speaker 2 It could be a mixed-use, mostly commercial property. 00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:19.000 Speaker 2 And this ownership benefits the individuals in many ways. 00:12:19.000 --> 00:12:33.000 Speaker 2 So as I mentioned, this is a trust, so we have a group of trustees that will select a management board and the management board will have authority to make decisions through vote. 00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:42.000 Speaker 2 to make sure the properties and maintenance and who they want to have in the property or the lease rates and beyond. 00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:46.000 Speaker 2 So kind of talk about the, so that's what a community investment trust is. 00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:48.000 Speaker 2 I'm going to go to the benefits. 00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:51.000 Speaker 2 So spear the benefits we see here, and this is a newer concept too. 00:12:51.000 --> 00:13:02.000 Speaker 2 Now I think there's only been one real, or two, both in the state of Washington, in the Seattle, 00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:06.000 Speaker 2 greater Seattle metropolis where these are installed at. 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:24.000 Speaker 2 But a number of folks have been inquiring about this model in other communities because the local level of ownership, of authority, a number of these commercial properties, especially in Lansing, are owned by the folks that don't live here. 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:26.000 Speaker 2 And so it's kind of like an out of sight, out of mind. 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:50.000 Speaker 2 type of thing, where that the property can be dilapidated at times, or the kind of tenants there are probably not the type of tenant that community would like to have in the neighborhood, perhaps, and but for the person who's not there, they just look at it as pure revenue, and versus the other thoughts that could be associated with having a certain type of establishment in a certain location. 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:55.000 Speaker 2 So the local ownership and direction is another is a key part of it. 00:13:55.000 --> 00:14:05.000 Speaker 2 The other part is that this is a way that allows people different zip codes to have ownership and the ownership presents a wealth building opportunity. 00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:16.000 Speaker 2 Because as the property value increases, you're paying off the debt service of that property and that leads to dividends to the individuals who invest in the property. 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:19.000 Speaker 2 And then also part of the community investment trust model, 00:14:19.000 --> 00:14:25.000 Speaker 2 is that your money is guaranteed because you use the city's credit about this investment. 00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:29.000 Speaker 2 So any person puts their money in this, their initial investment is guaranteed. 00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:32.000 Speaker 2 So they can pull that out anytime they want or once a year. 00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:37.000 Speaker 2 They can pull out their money back out and they can also join back in at the next open period as well. 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:41.000 Speaker 2 So it's a no risk investment for the individual to get this. 00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:49.000 Speaker 2 And it's a high, potential high yield return and also high yield becomes governance of the project. 00:14:49.000 --> 00:15:07.000 Speaker 1 So since you said the community investment trust model is something that's newer in terms of, just it as a concept itself, but also in its implementation within communities, how, or if you've done this work already, how have you 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:11.000 Speaker 1 understood the community's perspective about this opportunity? 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:13.000 Speaker 1 Is this something they're looking forward to? 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:20.000 Speaker 1 Is this something that specific demographics within Lansing are targeted to benefit from? 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:24.000 Speaker 1 How have you been able to really leverage the strategy? 00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:25.000 Speaker 2 Great question. 00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:34.000 Speaker 2 Emma, when it comes to our engagement and seeing the buy-in from this, we were able to talk to a number of community organizations. 00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:45.000 Speaker 2 I myself really glad I said we, it's me on this project, that touch a number of community organizations representing mostly on like the south side of Lansing, and it's in the southwest side of Lansing. 00:15:45.000 --> 00:16:00.000 Speaker 2 There's a number, there's about three or four different commercial strip mall type properties that I think this type of investment model will be prime to utilize for. 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:03.000 Speaker 2 Then I hear 00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:23.000 Speaker 2 So from the feedback we've seen, the main hardship, that hardship or concern the committees has brought up in these meetings with both One Local Global and Seed, a community education economic development group, which is a local organization as well, based in Southwest Lansing. 00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:32.000 Speaker 2 They say that, you know, nobody invests in these properties, or it's hard to talk to the owner when the owner's not there, or 00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:33.000 Speaker 2 in that realm. 00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:49.000 Speaker 2 And so there's a collective desire, want to have some type of authority in these properties and to see that investment happen and also help be more attractive to newer businesses and businesses that the community wants. 00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:59.000 Speaker 2 So through conversation of local groups and bodies and how I was to get the interest and the main point of desire for such a program. 00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:00.000 Speaker 1 That's awesome. 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:03.000 Speaker 1 So it really sounds like this. 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:09.000 Speaker 1 community investment model is really building off of the needs that you've identified within the community already. 00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:26.000 Speaker 1 And in terms of the second goal of your project, which has to do with cooperative investment models, the Allen Neighborhood Project, which is located in the east side of Lansing, that also uses a cooperative kind of investment model. 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:31.000 Speaker 1 But how have you understood this concept to wanting 00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:35.000 Speaker 1 to wanting to expand this concept rather in other areas within Lansing. 00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:51.000 Speaker 1 Is this something that's also really community driven or how do you see this kind of expanding beyond a neighborhood center, but to other maybe more mainstream or widely used resources within the city? 00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:57.000 Speaker 2 Yeah, so yeah, the Our Neighborhood Center is a phenomenal space. 00:17:57.000 --> 00:18:01.000 Speaker 2 And I'm want to know, originally, 00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:13.000 Speaker 2 going into this plan of action for the worker owner business model, it's that I really see that looming possible crisis of the retirement. 00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:22.000 Speaker 2 And then knowing that many regular people outside, business owners, don't have wills or succession planning in place. 00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:26.000 Speaker 2 And how crucial a step that is when it comes to like 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:32.000 Speaker 2 next steps afterwards for whatever you have left after you have transitioned from this, from this plane of existence. 00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:48.000 Speaker 2 And so those type of things are, I see as like big opportunities that we can improve upon as a community collectively if we understood, implement models to help shore up, to shore up the loose ends here. 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:56.000 Speaker 2 And so the worker, and we had a number of local institutions here 00:18:56.000 --> 00:19:02.000 Speaker 2 like Lansing institutions that are restaurants and other businesses that have been around for years. 00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:04.000 Speaker 2 And they closed out during the pandemic. 00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:12.000 Speaker 2 And I think they, and two of them, I can say right now, I said, I'll mention one, is DeLuca's. 00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:16.000 Speaker 2 They weathered the pandemic, it was just the fact that they were looking to retire. 00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:20.000 Speaker 2 And it is the owner, the family, 00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:27.000 Speaker 2 all had different interests in other job opportunities and they didn't really want to pursue the family business, which has been around for about 50 years. 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:30.000 Speaker 2 And it's like a Lansing staple. 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:41.000 Speaker 2 But he had a potential buyer at towards the very end, but that was until after he did an article or interview that said he wants to sell the business or wants to close the business. 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:44.000 Speaker 2 After he mentioned, hey, I'm looking to close business out. 00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:47.000 Speaker 2 for five months, then a potential buyer approached them. 00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:53.000 Speaker 2 But that time frame didn't allow enough due diligence to make that deal go through. 00:19:53.000 --> 00:20:10.000 Speaker 2 And so I looked at that as imagine if, you know, the workforce that worked there at Duocus, who've probably been there and folks and employees have been there for, you know, years on years, that know how to do their job and know how the flow of the business looks like. 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:12.000 Speaker 2 Imagine if they're able to collectively 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:26.000 Speaker 2 purchase the business, keep the owner on as the consultant, or help them train and learn the other aspects of the business, then that privy to whether that's supply chain or the payroll management software and beyond. 00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:36.000 Speaker 2 And they can actually figure out a way to buy the business and their individual income would increase without being owning A profitable business. 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:39.000 Speaker 2 and they can have revenue sharing as a collective from that. 00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:42.000 Speaker 2 I said, that would have been a major win in that space. 00:20:42.000 --> 00:21:05.000 Speaker 2 So seeing the cooperative model in other areas, I know that Ohio was a few spots that have one was like a dry cleaning business that's been best run by new Americans or new newcomers, also has refugees to America in the space here that's been very both profitable, but as well as successful. 00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:12.000 Speaker 2 I see that model be something that be replicated in our community, in Lansing, very much so. 00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:21.000 Speaker 2 And so those are kind of the breakdowns I'm looking at and just knowing that these models are not rare, are not new. 00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:22.000 Speaker 2 They're not as much rare. 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:29.000 Speaker 2 You know, I think the last MSU REI Summit, the Innovate Space Summit, we had a speaker about talking about cooperatives in that space. 00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:32.000 Speaker 2 Now there's like over 144,000 00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:33.000 Speaker 2 throughout the United States. 00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:47.000 Speaker 2 And so they're out there for sure, but I think it's less known and unfortunately less utilized, I think, but their output could be such a big benefit for the community. 00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:56.000 Speaker 1 Are there limits to the number of people that can be a part of this kind of cooperative type of investment model? 00:21:56.000 --> 00:22:10.000 Speaker 1 does, I know you mentioned DeLuca's, which is a restaurant in Lansing, but say other types of service providers or businesses in general wanted to adopt A similar framework. 00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:18.000 Speaker 1 Would that be something that is, you know, transmissible to those other types of situations? 00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:19.000 Speaker 2 Yeah, for sure. 00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:38.000 Speaker 2 I think of, manufacturing, whether it's, print or other different type of goods being produced, where even those type of realms, they're already understand like a both a collective and a group mindset, especially when you look at the union approach, right? 00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:43.000 Speaker 2 Is that there's a collective understanding as a bargaining group where we want this. 00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:45.000 Speaker 2 And 00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:51.000 Speaker 2 So I see this not just applicable to the restaurant or eatery business, but beyond that. 00:22:51.000 --> 00:23:11.000 Speaker 2 And when it comes to the limit of individuals, it goes from the smaller amount of employees, meaning there can be more of a partnership type aspect, and a larger amount definitely goes into the 00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:19.000 Speaker 2 the different rights of voting and then to a board and then to a managing partner in that space. 00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:27.000 Speaker 2 So, there's a little more complexities, but nothing that can't be done with, a little will and little effort. 00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:41.000 Speaker 1 And you also mentioned previously too, that in working on these, setting up these kind of models, you've been working with LEAP and you've also been working with some individuals on the board of commissioners. 00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:57.000 Speaker 1 But what support have you gotten from other local governance structures in order to really make this not only an idea, but a model that can truly be implemented and utilized within the community? 00:23:57.000 --> 00:24:07.000 Speaker 2 Yeah, so for the worker owner succession planning, Ingham County has saw the vision and, 00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:08.000 Speaker 2 They have backed this. 00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:13.000 Speaker 2 has gone through their service committee and it's been approved to move forward with that. 00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:15.000 Speaker 2 So that's a yay and hooray for that. 00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:19.000 Speaker 2 So that's a big win for the worker owner session planning. 00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:33.000 Speaker 2 I think we're getting close, whether through the city of Lansing or even some local financial institutions I've talked to as well that have dollars that could 00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:41.000 Speaker 2 go to support this through whether their civic engagement or corporate philanthropy efforts to help support this type of programming. 00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:49.000 Speaker 2 So yeah, I've been getting a lot of support, but the commissioners have been great from Ingham County for sure. 00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:59.000 Speaker 2 So that that's been a big win on for me and both on and me personally with the CIT space. 00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:08.000 Speaker 1 That's great that you've had some simultaneous support and that this hasn't been something that, you've identified in the community, but isn't supported politically. 00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:13.000 Speaker 1 So that's also something that's, you know, a barrier to overcome. 00:25:13.000 --> 00:25:17.000 Speaker 1 And that's great that you've already, you know, surmounted that. 00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:22.000 Speaker 1 And moving forward, you know, how do you see or who do you see 00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:27.000 Speaker 1 this project having the most impact on within Lansing? 00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:39.000 Speaker 1 your project is targeted towards, the Lansing community in general, but are there specific demographics in which you truly see these programs supporting? 00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:51.000 Speaker 2 Yeah, you know, top of mind are those underrepresented communities that have been unable to really fully participate in all 00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:55.000 Speaker 2 the wealth-building activities that can take place in the United States. 00:25:55.000 --> 00:26:09.000 Speaker 2 And that being ownership of businesses and ownership of property have been tied to some of the most effective ways to grow one's overall wealth and net house income collectively. 00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:20.000 Speaker 2 And so those underrepresented groups, specifically BIPOC, black people, other people of color, those with disabilities, and 00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:35.000 Speaker 2 in that realm and beyond, because like I said, underserved, that is a core area that I want to see partake in these programs that could benefit from these programs even more so. 00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:46.000 Speaker 2 When it comes to, other ways of, outreach, I think it's there with a number of community leaders in those areas that 00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:48.000 Speaker 2 that want to be part of this and aren't being part of this. 00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:53.000 Speaker 2 So that's where I see the benefit happening in that space. 00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:54.000 Speaker 2 Did I answer the question all the way, Am I? 00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:59.000 Speaker 2 Sorry, I might have kind of took it a different angle, but I definitely share that for sure. 00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:13.000 Speaker 1 No, I definitely think that you answered the question, especially in your discussion of, you know, who specifically would benefit, as well as the outreach strategy that you're trying to build. 00:27:13.000 --> 00:27:13.000 Speaker 1 And 00:27:13.000 --> 00:27:27.000 Speaker 1 And elaborating on that outreach strategy, is working with community partners that might have more specific ties to these underserved communities part of your plan for this project? 00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:38.000 Speaker 1 Or is that an effort that you plan to take on and moving forward beyond the work that you're doing within the REI Center? 00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:42.000 Speaker 2 So I look at this program being, ongoing. 00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:47.000 Speaker 2 I think we can really get some legs on this program. 00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:51.000 Speaker 2 the worker-owner session planning is definitely, is to get implemented this year. 00:27:51.000 --> 00:28:07.000 Speaker 2 It won't be a quick turnaround per se, because after talking to the firm C2BE, you know, there is a, you have to reach out, you have to feel comfortable of going, the business owners feel comfortable going over their books. 00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:19.000 Speaker 2 look at the perceived value, what that is there, putting a number on it, have to find the right business, we have enough employees that want to partake in buying the business. 00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:28.000 Speaker 2 And so this is over a year or two process, but getting it started implementing this year, that looks like it's going to happen very clearly on that. 00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:29.000 Speaker 2 The CIT, 00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:37.000 Speaker 2 program and then LEAP, sorry, with the work on a cooperative, LEAP as well as Ingham County will be there to spearhead and move that forward. 00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:40.000 Speaker 2 And I'm involved in both of those areas that way. 00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:43.000 Speaker 2 For the CIAT, you know, the first step is a feasibility study. 00:28:43.000 --> 00:28:56.000 Speaker 2 And that takes about between 6 to 10 weeks, I believe, when it comes to looking at the financials from the organization to help form the trust, looking at properties, 00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:05.000 Speaker 2 demand of the marketplace for certain properties, figure out roles, legal documents. 00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:07.000 Speaker 2 So it does take time for feasibility. 00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:25.000 Speaker 2 So I feel like, you know, both these projects have enough support in the community thus far, and which will help drive these things forward beyond the time frame of the fellowship right now, which is great, because we want to see these things, you know, live longer than just 00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:31.000 Speaker 2 the initial engagement and implementation through the support of MSU REI. 00:29:31.000 --> 00:29:48.000 Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, that is definitely a goal of the REI University Center and truly seeing not just the theory or the research behind it, but also seeing the outcomes that are produced in the communities in which we're partnering. 00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:53.000 Speaker 1 And so just to kind of push this conversation along, 00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:59.000 Speaker 1 I think we've definitely covered a lot about your project itself and the goals of your project. 00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:03.000 Speaker 1 But what truly makes your project innovative? 00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:04.000 Speaker 2 Oh, wow. 00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:05.000 Speaker 2 That's a great question. 00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:14.000 Speaker 2 I think one of the biggest aspects when it comes to innovation is, you know, finding the need and filling the need. 00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:22.000 Speaker 2 And I think we found the need through what's been long standing, that wealth building. 00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:31.000 Speaker 2 has not been, the tools of wealth building have not always been easily accessible to certain demographics in the community and certain areas of the community that are hurting more than others. 00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:34.000 Speaker 2 And so we know there's a need right there. 00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:40.000 Speaker 2 And then we, mix innovative, these are both 2 models that are less explored and less known. 00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:45.000 Speaker 2 One is completely, pretty much almost brand new, really, for the last five years. 00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:47.000 Speaker 2 And so that's the CIT model. 00:30:47.000 --> 00:31:14.000 Speaker 2 So I think those both breed innovation in itself and that it is upon us and it is obtainable for us to have an equitable economy and create programs and pathways to help lower poverty, to help increase household income, increase local ownership and authority and drive 00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:17.000 Speaker 2 a communal collective goal for good. 00:31:17.000 --> 00:31:21.000 Speaker 2 And I think that's what kind of makes up the innovation part of this program. 00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:28.000 Speaker 1 I think you definitely hit the nail with that one. 00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:56.000 Speaker 1 And so, not just looking at the innovative nature of your project, but also looking at, some of the goals in terms of the pillars of financial resilience that the center has taken on, how does your project further the REI mission, not only in terms of equitable development, but also in building that local financial resilience to stop some of those leakages that you've identified? 00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:58.000 Speaker 2 Yeah, so. 00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:06.000 Speaker 2 Majorly, I, MCRII is definitely a cornerstone institution that comes to this in the thought process. 00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:24.000 Speaker 2 And so when we think of resilience in the long term, this program really aligns itself to the ability that if the community individuals have more income, you are less susceptible to a 00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:41.000 Speaker 2 a unknown or impulsive or catastrophic change that could happen, whether it's the economy, it's your jobs, you personally, your household income and the ability to have savings and having assets makes you more resilient. 00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:50.000 Speaker 2 You know, when they talk about long-term wealth outlook for the, you know, for the majority of Americans and how around 50% of people 00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:53.000 Speaker 2 don't have over, $5,000 saved. 00:32:53.000 --> 00:33:03.000 Speaker 2 About 50% of people don't have the ability or don't have the ability, don't have, retirement savings in the space. 00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:14.000 Speaker 2 That puts the community at large in a very treacherous type of state where you're susceptible to a lot of 00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:16.000 Speaker 2 unknown dangers financially. 00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:18.000 Speaker 2 And that takes a toll on you as a person. 00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:20.000 Speaker 2 That takes a toll on your loved ones. 00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:23.000 Speaker 2 That takes a toll on a lot of communal activities as well. 00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:43.000 Speaker 2 So by creating like this program right here, by really helping create access to assets, access to wealth building, and those are being both commercial real estate and or a business, you know, through the worker owner succession planning. 00:33:43.000 --> 00:33:56.000 Speaker 2 Those things allow individuals to seek and grow and become more, less susceptible to change, or by change, I'm talking about like negative change in that space. 00:33:56.000 --> 00:34:07.000 Speaker 2 So that's why we align ourselves very closely with the resilience that one of the pillars that MSUREI has in store. 00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:07.000 Speaker 1 Yeah, that's great. 00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:15.000 Speaker 1 I definitely see a lot of comparisons as to how your project truly fits into the culture and the work that the city is already doing. 00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:34.000 Speaker 1 So it seems like there's a lot of streamlined efforts towards really building that, not just resilience in one aspect of a city, like you previously mentioned to natural event shocks or natural disaster shocks, but to, you know, changes into our social and economic 00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:51.000 Speaker 1 environments as well, which a lot of people, don't pay attention to maybe as explicitly, but live through every day implicitly, whether that they recognize that experience or not in those terms. 00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:55.000 Speaker 1 So, yeah, I welcome your response to that. 00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:59.000 Speaker 2 No, I was gonna submission, yeah, I totally agree with you, stay there, Emma. 00:34:59.000 --> 00:35:02.000 Speaker 2 And, you know, I look at the... 00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:16.000 Speaker 2 worker owner succession plan as a tool that allows, especially for industries that are outside of a restaurant, outside of the retail leg of the supply chain. 00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:24.000 Speaker 2 the majority of businesses are in that retail leg supply chain, which is directly dependent upon the consumer. 00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:32.000 Speaker 2 And so when we saw COVID, the amazing take up and how it hurt the economy, especially those small businesses, because 00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:36.000 Speaker 2 People who lost their jobs and those retail businesses suffered tremendously. 00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:39.000 Speaker 2 They're dependent upon just the consumer. 00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:59.000 Speaker 2 And the majority, the vast majority of any underrepresented group, whether it's a person of color, women, veteran, majority of those demographics are situated within the underrepresented, are situated in the retail and 00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:01.000 Speaker 2 of the pipeline. 00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:29.000 Speaker 2 And so if we can have individuals who are in the manufacturing gain or the wholesale in the pipeline, think about succession planning and having their workforce more typically more diverse than just ownership in those areas, and that new ownership is more representative of the community at large, we can really see a shift in large-scale wealth production as well as 00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:31.000 Speaker 2 poor beliefs to some organizations as well. 00:36:31.000 --> 00:36:32.000 Speaker 2 So that really excites me. 00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:36.000 Speaker 2 So that's why I want to kind of jump in on that. 00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:49.000 Speaker 1 So I know you mentioned previously the fact that there are some other communities in Washington state that have already implemented that communal investment trust model. 00:36:49.000 --> 00:37:19.000 Speaker 1 But what is the potential, in your opinion, for other communities, not only in Michigan, but potentially across the nation, to implement a similar model, maybe to that community investment trust, but also in cooperative investment models too, which are already a little bit more widely used, but could use more, you know, wide disbursement across communities that don't have access to those opportunities currently? 00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:22.000 Speaker 2 Yeah, I think the opportunity is very large. 00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:33.000 Speaker 2 I think we can see this being very, replicatable across a number of communities, both of those aspects. 00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:45.000 Speaker 2 And when I talked to CIT Invest, which is like the leading firm for the Community Investment Trust, they're the ones that started the program and they had their outreach engagement and replication officer. 00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:48.000 Speaker 2 And I know the CEO of the firm as well, he mentioned, you know, 00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:59.000 Speaker 2 this year, since the beginning of this year, they had, I think, 12 engagements for different communities looking at their model. 00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:07.000 Speaker 2 And he mentioned, I forget the number he had last year, but he saw like, for the first quarter, 12 was like, whoa, it was a giant spike up. 00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:10.000 Speaker 2 So I think the interest is there. 00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:12.000 Speaker 2 And I think, 00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:23.000 Speaker 2 myself and this community of Lansing and MSURI part of this, we're definitely one of the early adopters that see this as a way that we can really benefit the community at large. 00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:39.000 Speaker 2 And I think furthering the branding and the showing the success of both the CIT as well as the worker owner succession model, because like I said, the worker owner succession has been around, but probably less known. 00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:42.000 Speaker 2 We can highlight that success when we trumpet it 00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:45.000 Speaker 2 to our peer cities and other communities. 00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:48.000 Speaker 2 And so it worked here and this is how we did it. 00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:49.000 Speaker 2 And it can work here too. 00:38:49.000 --> 00:38:52.000 Speaker 2 And trust me, we're the only ones that are the first ones to do it. 00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:59.000 Speaker 2 It's been done before, but we're doing it this way, this equitable approach for these demographics specifically, you know, go for it. 00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:00.000 Speaker 2 We can help you along the way. 00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:13.000 Speaker 2 So I think there's a large, a large opportunity for us to show the way and lead the way to a number of other communities to do these programs. 00:39:13.000 --> 00:39:14.000 Speaker 1 That's awesome. 00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:28.000 Speaker 1 And in terms of, the tools and partnerships that you have leveraged in trying to mobilize these strategies, what advice would you give to other communities looking to implement similar models? 00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:34.000 Speaker 1 What tools or partnerships or, just overall advice would you provide them? 00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:36.000 Speaker 2 Yeah, 00:39:36.000 --> 00:40:01.000 Speaker 2 I have the benefit of both being an economic development professional in this space, but I say working with your both your local EDL, your economic development organization, is a great way to start, as well as community-led organizations, understanding their needs and understanding where they see like, hey, especially when it comes to wealth generation, that would be a big one there. 00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:04.000 Speaker 2 And we've done that on my behalf here. 00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:06.000 Speaker 2 And then 00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:08.000 Speaker 2 your local elected official. 00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:15.000 Speaker 2 I think, on the local level, whether that's county or city, probably the best bet to go, having that relationship. 00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:24.000 Speaker 2 I have a strong partnership with the commissioner here that's been a great ally and supporter of both these programs. 00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:29.000 Speaker 2 And they see the vision, they see the need, they have their finger on the pulse of the community as well. 00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:33.000 Speaker 2 So I think that's imperative, because, you know, especially looking at dollars. 00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:35.000 Speaker 2 And, you know, 00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:47.000 Speaker 2 Then I would also tell folks, local banks and credit unions, see what they have like a mandate to do funding or to do philanthropic giving in different communities. 00:40:47.000 --> 00:40:51.000 Speaker 2 That might be a go ahead as well. 00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:57.000 Speaker 2 locally here, one of our larger bank institutions has contributed A lot. 00:40:57.000 --> 00:41:02.000 Speaker 2 I think they might want to contribute helping that feasibility study for the CIT model. 00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:04.000 Speaker 2 And so 00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:19.000 Speaker 2 Those are some ways I think other community individuals or other individuals in their communities could take and utilize to help create a program like this in their community or other programs. 00:41:19.000 --> 00:41:36.000 Speaker 2 So the EDOs, the local political elected officials, being definitely in the county and the city level, and then a community-based organization to have that through, you know, the further outreach of the community that you're trying to serve. 00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:38.000 Speaker 1 I think that's a great overview. 00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:46.000 Speaker 1 Definitely building relationships is a core part of community and economic investment work anyways. 00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:52.000 Speaker 1 So that definitely makes sense with the trend of the work in this environment. 00:41:52.000 --> 00:42:02.000 Speaker 1 But is there really anything else that you would like to discuss about your research or other opportunities for local financial resilience building? 00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:05.000 Speaker 2 Yeah, I think we did a great job covering it. 00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:21.000 Speaker 2 I just really want to say that we as a community, as every community really, this has to be on the forefront of our minds that, the time is upon us to really think about what the future holds. 00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:30.000 Speaker 2 And we have to be serious that there are some number of demographics, a number of areas that probably need 00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:35.000 Speaker 2 a lot of emergency attention and we want to see these areas grow and thrive. 00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:40.000 Speaker 2 We got to be bold and direct about the support we're giving them. 00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:51.000 Speaker 2 And also fall for sure, but we have to be willing to take those educated risks to move the program forward to do good for the whole. 00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:56.000 Speaker 2 And you know, trying beats not trying any day. 00:42:56.000 --> 00:42:59.000 Speaker 2 Trying allows you to say, 00:42:59.000 --> 00:43:02.000 Speaker 2 there's room for improvement, not trying, just let the problem grow. 00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:12.000 Speaker 2 And so what we're doing right now, this project is definitely trying to build and grow the wealth and support for certain communities and know we'll continue to grow and improve as it grows through. 00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:28.000 Speaker 2 But I think as a whole, just try, go for it, be bold and be direct about the plans and initiatives to help certain communities, to help certain areas of the communities out who should know those exist throughout every 00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:31.000 Speaker 2 municipal area, community, city throughout the nation. 00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:37.000 Speaker 2 So that's just my partaking words about building resiliency in that space. 00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:46.000 Speaker 1 I think that that's a wonderful way to recap and also kind of leave our listeners with something to think about in their own work. 00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:51.000 Speaker 1 So with that, I would really truly like to thank you for joining us today, Tony. 00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:55.000 Speaker 1 We look forward to the completion of your research. 00:43:55.000 --> 00:43:56.000 Speaker 2 I appreciate you, Emma, for this conversation. 00:43:56.000 --> 00:43:59.000 Speaker 2 And yeah, I look forward to talking to you soon. 00:43:59.000 --> 00:44:05.000 Speaker 2 And can't wait to have another follow-up as this is for the end of the summer here. 00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:17.000 Speaker 1 Well, this has been Community and University with Tony Willis discussing his project, exploring communal and cooperative investment models for Lansing in order to build resilience in the Lansing community. 00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:21.000 Speaker 1 Tune in next time for another interview with an REI project leader. 00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:26.000 Speaker 1 Thank you.